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+--- Thread: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? (/thread-616.html)
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Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Artwark - 06-29-2013
I'm just saying that Nintendo may have dropped that game feel we had when we played games on GBA, Gamecube, DS or Wii. For example the original Mario vs Donkey Kong is the best out of the whole Mario vs Donkey kong series. Then its Paper mario series where they messed the game feel with sticker star. Then Luigi's mansion is way better than Dark moon(Although some parts of dark moon were good like the humor, length and the ending as well).
I know its stupid but playing these memorable games makes me feel if game feel today is gone.
Also if games like Dark moon were a bit disappointing, why are reviews and sales positive? I'm not saying or trying to say now that I'm beginning to lose touch with Nintendo (Which is false btw) I'm just asking why isn't anyone taking this game feel a little serious. I mean you do spend some money to make sure the game is worth.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Dutchtica - 06-29-2013
No I don't think they've "lost it".
They may have gotten a bit too pandering, (As in, you wanted this? Fine, we'll give you this.) but that might be slightly the fault of the fans. But games like Donkey Kong Country Returns and Luigi: Dark Moon (And I'm betting the upcoming Mario & Luigi: Dream Team) to me, are quality.
And the rest? Well so far they're still selling, so they must be doing something right. (Note: I'm not using sales = quality argument for my own sake, mind.)
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - retrolinkx - 06-29-2013
(06-29-2013, 10:43 AM)Artwark Wrote: Also if games like Dark moon were a bit disappointing, why are reviews and sales positive?
This is because the reviewers have to review the game as it is. They can't say it's a disappointment because they loved the first one. They go over the story, gameplay, mechanics, everything really.
Sales on the other hand are usually good because it's a game people haven't seen and want. Think about it, if a new F-Zero came out on the 3DS do you know how well that would sell?
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - JiraiyaSennin - 06-29-2013
(06-29-2013, 10:43 AM)Artwark Wrote: Also if games like Dark moon were a bit disappointing, why are reviews and sales positive?
Well it obviously was only disappointing to you and a few, because the sales were good and reviews positive.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - MexicanAnime - 06-29-2013
Nintendo still makes some pretty good games, but they need to concentrate more on some new titles or at least a few of their series that are on the backseat (I'm looking at you Star Fox). I'm not going to lie, I do enjoy Mario and Zelda games, but I'd prefer if they just didn't keep releasing another Mario rehash over and over again and not take more chances.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Dutchtica - 06-29-2013
That's the downside with Nintendo owning so many original IP's, a lot of them are on the backburner, so when one DOES come out and doesn't do well albeit critically or financially, it drastically reduces the chance of another one of them coming out and gives us yet another New Super Mario Party U-2.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - MexicanAnime - 06-29-2013
Considering how well Kid Icarus Uprising and Fire Emblem Awakening did in both of those cases (hell, the first being the first real step to having great games on the 3DS), the chances of that would be pretty high.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Psychospacecow - 06-29-2013
They're doing just fine. If they lost touch, then we would have been laughing at them come E3 as opposed to Microsoft.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Hexadecimal - 06-29-2013
I think they're adapting to today's audience. Personally I very rarely ever get excited for Nintendo titles now. Mario seems to be the same thing every time, I can't get into Zelda anymore, I don't like Donkey Kong now that Rareware has nothing to do with it, and so on.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - CosmykTheDolfyn - 06-29-2013
Nintendo is a company that needs to make money. They haven't lost touch with making games, they've gained the touch to make money in a broader spectrum than just your average "gamer" population.
That also means no more innovative Mario, no F-Zero (daggon it!), and just general bleh.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Arjahn - 06-29-2013
Nope, I know that they recycle the New Super Mario Bros formula to an insulting degree, but just by looking at their 3DS lineup lately you can tell that they've still got it.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Artwark - 06-30-2013
(06-29-2013, 01:12 PM)retrolinkx Wrote:(06-29-2013, 10:43 AM)Artwark Wrote: Also if games like Dark moon were a bit disappointing, why are reviews and sales positive?
This is because the reviewers have to review the game as it is. They can't say it's a disappointment because they loved the first one. They go over the story, gameplay, mechanics, everything really.
Sales on the other hand are usually good because it's a game people haven't seen and want. Think about it, if a new F-Zero came out on the 3DS do you know how well that would sell?
Yeah I guess you're right about that one. I've never played any F-Zero game before.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Xannidel - 06-30-2013
Mmm the only problem I am seeing from Nintendo is that they are not dishing out enough games to justify buying their latest handhels/consoles. Look at the 3DS, for example, the sales for the first year were atrocious but when more games started coming out the handheld became a more a more viable option to get. The same thing is happening to the Wii U, the console came out with some nice exclusives but there were no upcoming games that were really crowd pleasing and that has turned many indie developers away and that might also get 3rd party developers uninterested in the console. I think they need to...take a break...Not leave altogether but take a breather to reevaluate things and make sure they have their priorities straight so they can avoid any negative press.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Artwark - 06-30-2013
(06-30-2013, 07:05 AM)Xannidel Wrote: Mmm the only problem I am seeing from Nintendo is that they are not dishing out enough games to justify buying their latest handhels/consoles. Look at the 3DS, for example, the sales for the first year were atrocious but when more games started coming out the handheld became a more a more viable option to get. The same thing is happening to the Wii U, the console came out with some nice exclusives but there were no upcoming games that were really crowd pleasing and that has turned many indie developers away and that might also get 3rd party developers uninterested in the console. I think they need to...take a break...Not leave altogether but take a breather to reevaluate things and make sure they have their priorities straight so they can avoid any negative press.
The difference between the 3ds and the wii U is that the 3ds games were being made just before the end of the year for the 3ds. Super mario 3d land, starfox 64 3d and Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time are the current best selling games and they sold a lot where super mario 3d land is the best because it made use of all the 3ds features(Except with the streetpass).
Wii U on the other hand does not currently have a title so exclusive that it shows the Wii U's potential. Because of this, sales of the Wii U are low which is why I'm waiting for great games to show up on the wii U.
RE: Has nintendo lost touch in making games? - Yawackhary - 06-30-2013
I don't think Nintendo has lost much in terms of their touch, it's just that the times have changed and Nintendo is struggling to keep up to the point where they have to make a Mario game or two and reusing assets or engines or even remaking games. They probably love to go back to the SNES/N64/Gamecube eras for creativity but are worried that it is not safe financially to do it.
Take Miyamoto for example, he is a wonderful game designer and many views that he made throughout the years are highly agreeable (e.g. delaying games can turn out good, games are like rock and roll as in that there are people who love it and people who hate it so much that they want it banned, games should be enjoyed) however I feel that he is burnt out in terms of making games. After all his last few games have been flops e.g. Wii Music and his advice has harmed Paper Mario: Sticker Star since when he designed games back in the 80s, they were even lucky to even have an ending but now a lot of games put story first or story and graphics first so to many it felt like a step backwards. Also I feel that Miyamoto does get jealous like he hated Donkey Kong Country for years just because it sold better than Yoshi's Island and probably it is me talking I think he is jealous of Sega handling F-Zero GX making excuses on why there are no more F-Zero games [all Nintendo have to do is look at other racing games to get a couple of ideas or even expand on their existing ideas e.g. the Track Editor could become a Track Creator to share tracks on Miiverse]. Well that and the series apparently isn't a high seller plus the fact apart from Nintendo themselves and Polyphony, there aren't any Japanese developers left making racing games so that's another reason.
The main problem is that Nintendo interfere too much whether it is 1987 or 2013, even though their games are usually very high quality. Would Paper Mario: Sticker Star is better if it wasn't interfered? Probably. However would Metroid Prime be better if it was just Retro Studios without any help from Nintendo? No it wouldn't. Plus the fact Nintendo has annoyed other publishers/developers in the past to the point of ignoring them due to various policies and they are stubborn. Capcom, Konami, Namco [even way back in the late 80s], more recently EA all who supported Nintendo heavily and later pulled out or mostly pulled out with a bit of lip service. With Square-Enix, it is mostly the handheld side that are still in, they only made a few console titles after Final Fantasy VI. SNK left for the Neo Geo but came back for the Wii (under SNK Playmore) just for compliations/re-releases, Taito and Tecmo didn't really support them much after the 16 bit era. Nintendo's other help have all gone e.g. Acclaim, Midway (now Warner Bros. who do support Nintendo a bit), THQ and the various other studios. How long will it be until Nintendo annoy Sega, Platinum Games and Ubisoft?
Even then Nintendo is not the only Japanese company to struggle with the current times, Square Enix (the Japanese side, not the Eidos side) is another and Polyphony did struggle with Gran Turismo 5. We are currently in a more Western dominated industry where they use PCs to make games and using built engines like Unreal or Unity [it is why the PS4 is more PC based compared to the processor designed consoles of the past] while traditional Japanese developers used their own engines and tools even if they do use the Havok physics engine. In the past Europeans also made their own tools and engines but this practice has declined over the years [I can only think of Sumo Digital and Criterion using custom engines even though the latter made RenderWare that was used in a lot of games during the PS2 era]. So while Western developers can make games quickly to focus on other areas, the Japanese developers take longer since they are programming them from scratch. This difference in feel is why American/European games are usually 30fps while Japanese games are usually 60fps. It is also why Capcom, Konami and to a degree Namco all using Western developers even if the quality has gone downhill a bit.
Thinking though, the reason why Nintendo brought out many Wii games was because it used the GameCube hardware to make them easier to develop. In fact a few Wii games started off as Gamecube games that were either dual release [Twilight Princess], dual release in the US but Wii only in Europe/Japan or moved to the Wii [Super Paper Mario, Donkey Kong Jet Race]. Now the Wii U for them is new hardware even though it isn't as powerful as the PS4 and the Xbone so they had to start it all over again plus the fact it isn't PC based means that they are struggling since it is the odd one out of the 3 even though they chose the design. I think the 3DS isn't as much of a change to the DS which is why Nintendo is coping better on the handheld than their home console.