(06-17-2014, 10:43 AM)gamemaster1991 Wrote:

(06-17-2014, 09:18 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote: But if you're running a tournament, that's just tedious. Even if you're not running at tournament and playing at your local scene it's just as annoying. This isn't the 90's anymore where it's a secret but it's a fundamental part of the metagame that's going to be played for many years to come. May as well just give us the versus characters straight away. As Skullgirls has shown, there could be a comprise between both in that you can unlock them right away or let people play through.

I also hate to be "that one guy" but Sub Space Emissary wasn't even the slightest bit fun. Bosses and Cutscenes were all that it had going for it. The rest was pointless and I don't feel like doing the same again in SSB4 just for one character.

If Mario Kart can have unlockable characters since Wii, I think SSB4 can have it as well.

The problem with this is that the characters in Smash are all different and play differently and what character you play as makes a big difference. In Mario Kart the characters make little difference, only what type of kart you can choose.

(06-17-2014, 12:17 PM)Zaliphone Wrote:

(06-17-2014, 10:43 AM)gamemaster1991 Wrote:

(06-17-2014, 09:18 AM)BumblebeeCody Wrote: But if you're running a tournament, that's just tedious. Even if you're not running at tournament and playing at your local scene it's just as annoying. This isn't the 90's anymore where it's a secret but it's a fundamental part of the metagame that's going to be played for many years to come. May as well just give us the versus characters straight away. As Skullgirls has shown, there could be a comprise between both in that you can unlock them right away or let people play through.

I also hate to be "that one guy" but Sub Space Emissary wasn't even the slightest bit fun. Bosses and Cutscenes were all that it had going for it. The rest was pointless and I don't feel like doing the same again in SSB4 just for one character.

If Mario Kart can have unlockable characters since Wii, I think SSB4 can have it as well.

The problem with this is that the characters in Smash are all different and play differently and what character you play as makes a big difference. In Mario Kart the characters make little difference, only what type of kart you can choose.

Mario Kart characters have different stats. One character that can drift good is going to take turns better than one that can go really fast. Saying it really does not mater what racer you choose in Mario Kart would be like saying it does not matter what fighter you pick in Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, or Super Smash Bros. Picking Koopa over Mario in MK is just like picking Koopa over Mario in SSB.

Stats in Mario Kart are indeed less of a factor than SSB4, though, which ironically means your best combo can be much more crystallized.

But, in any case, from the footage seen of Little Mac so far, does anyone else worry about him being OP? His back roll and ground game seem amazing, although his air game seems to leave a little to be desired.

The character stat differences in Mario Kart are minimal and do not majorly change the way you have to play, but that's not even really what this is about. Having to unlock characters in a competitive multiplayer game, whether it be for casual fun or a tournament, is crap. Because it's competitive I think everyone should start on the same level and not have an advantage with a character, or against a character, because someone didn't spend 20 hours trying to find out how to get the character.

Well, technically, there IS quite a competitive Mario Kart community. If you don't believe me, there is a reason AGDQ always winds up with a Mario Kart All Cups speedrun (though I wish they would finally do a MKDD run in AGDQ, it's so broken with two players one kart). And character unlocking does come into play there.
For example, your most often used combo in time trials in the competitive community is Funky Kong/Flame Runner (I'm more of a Daisy/Mach Bike man myself) in MKWii. You do have to unlock Funky Kong.
It's very small compared to Super Smash Bros, but look at the way SSBB was released and advertised. Not as a true fighting game, but a party fighting game. Not that SSB4 is that, but I feel Nintendo still views it more that way.

(06-17-2014, 01:54 PM)CosmykTheDolfyn Wrote: Well, technically, there IS quite a competitive Mario Kart community. If you don't believe me, there is a reason AGDQ always winds up with a Mario Kart All Cups speedrun (though I wish they would finally do a MKDD run in AGDQ, it's so broken with two players one kart). And character unlocking does come into play there.
For example, your most often used combo in time trials in the competitive community is Funky Kong/Flame Runner (I'm more of a Daisy/Mach Bike man myself) in MKWii. You do have to unlock Funky Kong.
It's very small compared to Super Smash Bros, but look at the way SSBB was released and advertised. Not as a true fighting game, but a party fighting game. Not that SSB4 is that, but I feel Nintendo still views it more that way.

Oh believe me, I know a bit about competitive Mario Kart. I enjoyed my time with Funky Kong/Flame Runner, but I hated that I had to unlock him. I didn't even know he was in the game until I found out about competitive Mario Kart.

On the subject of Daisy/Mach, I tried using that but she was so annoying whenever you did a trick that I just stopped.

(06-17-2014, 12:49 PM)gamemaster1991 Wrote: Mario Kart characters have different stats. One character that can drift good is going to take turns better than one that can go really fast. Saying it really does not mater what racer you choose in Mario Kart would be like saying it does not matter what fighter you pick in Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, or Super Smash Bros. Picking Koopa over Mario in MK is just like picking Koopa over Mario in SSB.

But you can't compare genres. There are three variable factors that go into the racing genre. The Karts, Characters and Tracks. Super Smash Bros only needs the characters. They are the most important fundamental part of the game. Not only that but Mario Kart 8 has duplicate characters. The 3 best characters in Mario Kart 8 are Bowser, Wario and Morton. Morton is locked but the rest aren't. If you don't have Morton you can still perform exactly the same with Wario and Bowser. But if you don't have Mewtwo, well enjoy not playing Mewtwo. Every character in Smash Bros is different to the point that it can be a huge difference in tier list (see Fox/Falco(amazing) as opposed to Wolf(Average)). I agree with what you said in that Mario Karts weight classes do matter, because they honestly do. If you're not playing Wario, Bowser or Morton, then you're not playing to win. But in that games, weight classes have multiple characters so you can substitute one for another and still get the same results.

My point is that this genre of gaming doesn't need archaic untouchables. They're an integral part of the metagame and should be available right away. You can't compare the racing genre to fighting because of what is required to be played on a competitive level.

(06-17-2014, 01:54 PM)CosmykTheDolfyn Wrote: Not that SSB4 is that, but I feel Nintendo still views it more that way.

I feel that's changed actually. Sakurai had a very shitty attitude towards Brawl which resulted in the game being pretty bad (Project M fixed that but only by so much). Once SSB4 was announced again, he was pretty shitty but over time he(and Nintendo) have shifted their attitude in favour of competitive gaming. As of last year we've seen 1) Nintendo fully embrace Melee being at EVO. Remember, they were going to stop Melee from being in EVO 2013s lineup. We've seen Sakurai 2) announce Final Destination settings for all stages and only as of last week, have an 3) invitational with some of the best players to demonstrate SSB4.
Melee 12 years on is still being streamed on Twitch and getting over 100 000 viewers. It's a big deal for competitive gaming.

(06-17-2014, 01:29 PM)CosmykTheDolfyn Wrote: But, in any case, from the footage seen of Little Mac so far, does anyone else worry about him being OP? His back roll and ground game seem amazing, although his air game seems to leave a little to be desired.

I'm playing him because I think he's going to be a really damn good character. His technical aspect of building meter and getting an easy One Hit K.O is awesome as heck. Plus, from the footage I've seen, his damage output is pretty high. As someone who plays Ike, it'll be nice to go for someone with less power, more speed and has meter management.

(06-17-2014, 04:35 PM)BumblebeeCody Wrote:

(06-17-2014, 01:54 PM)CosmykTheDolfyn Wrote: Not that SSB4 is that, but I feel Nintendo still views it more that way.

I feel that's changed actually. Sakurai had a very shitty attitude towards Brawl which resulted in the game being pretty bad (Project M fixed that but only by so much). Once SSB4 was announced again, he was pretty shitty but over time he(and Nintendo) have shifted their attitude in favour of competitive gaming. As of last year we've seen 1) Nintendo fully embrace Melee being at EVO. Remember, they were going to stop Melee from being in EVO 2013s lineup. We've seen Sakurai 2) announce Final Destination settings for all stages and only as of last week, have an 3) invitational with some of the best players to demonstrate SSB4.
Melee 12 years on is still being streamed on Twitch and getting over 100 000 viewers. It's a big deal for competitive gaming.

Here's the thing:
Points 1 and 3 really helped build hype for SSB4, and we all know that Nintendo is king of advertising. That's nearly free advertising in each case, especially since today's game market deals with youtube, twitch and every post online driving sales higher.
Second thing: Note past sales. 32% of gamecube owners bought Super Smash Bros Melee. 12% of Wii owners bought Brawl. (These are quick calculations based on sales of consoles and games). Brawl sold better overall, but just because the Wii sold so many units. Better physics, less cartoony stuff=awesome sales in Smash Bros. Nintendo is looking at that also. Brawl was panned. They're changing it, not because of love of competitive gaming, but friending up a little will help sales.
That may make me love SSB4 more than Brawl in the end, but I don't buy it one bit that Nintendo is shifting their policy ever so slightly for any other reason than cash. The entire thing so far just screams the most brilliant marketing maneuver Nintendo has ever pulled off, not catering to the fighting market. It just so happens a change in some policy will help there.

My last point for SSB chariters. Everyone is going to play as Fox, so why care about the tornament scene? I'll be playing as Pac-man, Megaman, and Sonic, even if they need to be unlocked. I just hope I don't get board with the game like I did Melee.

(06-17-2014, 05:24 PM)gamemaster1991 Wrote: My last point for SSB chariters. Everyone is going to play as Fox, so why care about the tornament scene? I'll be playing as Pac-man, Megaman, and Sonic, even if they need to be unlocked. I just hope I don't get board with the game like I did Melee.

Fox was my jam back in the day! He was so overpowered. I hope he is still going to be amazing.

(06-17-2014, 05:12 PM)CosmykTheDolfyn Wrote: Here's the thing:
Points 1 and 3 really helped build hype for SSB4, and we all know that Nintendo is king of advertising. That's nearly free advertising in each case, especially since today's game market deals with youtube, twitch and every post online driving sales higher.
Second thing: Note past sales. 32% of gamecube owners bought Super Smash Bros Melee. 12% of Wii owners bought Brawl. (These are quick calculations based on sales of consoles and games). Brawl sold better overall, but just because the Wii sold so many units. Better physics, less cartoony stuff=awesome sales in Smash Bros. Nintendo is looking at that also. Brawl was panned. They're changing it, not because of love of competitive gaming, but friending up a little will help sales.
That may make me love SSB4 more than Brawl in the end, but I don't buy it one bit that Nintendo is shifting their policy ever so slightly for any other reason than cash. The entire thing so far just screams the most brilliant marketing maneuver Nintendo has ever pulled off, not catering to the fighting market. It just so happens a change in some policy will help there.

Personally I think this game will much better than Brawl but it won't be better than Melee. The speed of the game seems to be a lightly faster Brawl. Dunno.

(06-17-2014, 05:24 PM)gamemaster1991 Wrote: My last point for SSB chariters. Everyone is going to play as Fox, so why care about the tornament scene? I'll be playing as Pac-man, Megaman, and Sonic, even if they need to be unlocked. I just hope I don't get board with the game like I did Melee.

Because not everyone does play as Fox. Marth is an unlockable and yet one of the best. Even if we don't talk about the tournament scene (which is important since even Nintendo are backing it) it's just silly to have system still in place in the year 2014. It's bad game design at this point.

Also: CEO 2014 is hype.
Watch here
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

hey

looky

Quote:«The pink sweatshirt looks really cool on Little Mac, so you can use that outfit in this game... How can a pink sweatshirt look so cool? Looks like some of you noticed that this version of Little Mac wasn't shown at E3. There are many things, like Link's Skyward Sword tunic design I posted earlier, that haven't been revealed yet.»

What are some alternate costumes you guys would like to see for some of the other characters?

These are some of mine.
Toon Link: Outset Island outfit, Conductor outfit
Mario: Dr. Mario
Luigi: Dr. Luigi
Bowser: Dry Bowser
Yoshi: Yarn Yoshi

I want to see

Marth : Ike
Sonic : Werehog or Super Sonic.
Peach : Mario Kart outfit, catsuit
Mario : Cat suit
Luigi : Cat Suit
Fox : Low-poly fox
Pikachu : Raichu

You can't really have alternate costumes that would greatly change the hitboxes of the characters.