The Free Thread *Gaming Related*

[Zaliphone]

Can someone explain to me why they keep rereleasing fighting games with slightly altered titles? How much do they change in the different versions that justifies a 'new' release?

[Mass Distraction]

Fighting game pros. That's your answer right there.

Reworked balances mean the world in that scene.

[BumblebeeCody*]

Fighting game pros. That's your answer right there.

Reworked balances mean the world in that scene.

Pretty much this.

The genre itself is heavily based on how the game operates. Something that pretty much, no other genre even touches on to be good at. I'm talking about hitbox and frame data.
For example:
Super Street Fighter 4:

Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition:


The top image shows that Ryus Hitbox(The red one. The space the attack occupies) came out further than his hurtbox(the area that the character occupies).
This basically meant that in SSFIV, Ryu could stick his leg out with his body safe from harm should the opponent try to challenge; making it a very good poke tool(a safe move to throw out).

The second image represents a "nerf"(A downgrade on the character). In SSFIV:AE Capcom change Ryu hotbox data so that if you now stick the crouching medium kick out, there a chance that you'll trade (both hit each other at the same time). This is a nerf because the person playing Ryu can't constantly throw this move out since his hurtbox(where you can hit him) now extends past the hitbox of the attack(the red box) . There is a risk that you could take damage and thus, this isn't as much of a viable tool anymore. It's still good, but it means other characters can now challenge you in a poking match(trying hit each other with moves that have little to no recovery). If you also look closely, you can see the size of the redbox is actually made slightly larger meaning it can hit higher than it's previous game version.

However, the animation properties changed. The screenshot shows what the game is processing at that very specific frame(of a game running at 60FPS).
The new frame data is:
The active frames were reduced by 2, from 5 frames to 3 frames, plus there area you can be hit was made larger. Total frames also reduced, from 23F to 21F.

This means that even though Ryu took a HITBOX nerf in SSFIV:AE you can now throw the move out quicker. But the active frames(how long the move stays out for (in frames)) was reduced.
With this change, the move doesn't last as long but comes out quicker with the chance you could get a trade with the opponent.
This is all just for one move

This is just one of the many changes that comes with "ultra super duper rainbow edition Street Fighter 4:[insert rest of overused joke]". They completely change how some characters play to the point that they can go from mid tier(average characters) to being in the top best 3 characters in the entire game.
Cammy for example is a character that went from average to quite possible the best character in the game.
Reasons:
Her damage output. Her stamina. Her amazing pokes and combo potential. Her wake up game, mixups and how she fares against every other character in the game.
Her Frame Data
[spoiler]
Block Super Meter Frames
Move Name HL Damage Stun Gain Cancel Ability Startup Active Recovery On Guard On Hit Notes
Close Jab.gif HL 25 50 20 ch/sp/su 3 2 5 +4 +7
Close Strong.gif HL 70[60] 100 40 sp/su 4 4 13 +1 +6 [] refers to active frames 3~4
Close Fierce.gif HL 85 150 60 sp/su 4 4 11 +2 +6
Close Short.gif HL 25 50 20 ch/sp/su 4 2 8 +1 +4
Close Forward.gif HL 65 100 40 sp/su 4 3 17 -6 -3
Close Roundhouse.gif HL 110 200 60 - 9 5 24 -11 -7
Far Jab.gif HL 25 50 20 ch/sp/su 3 3 5 +3 +6
Far Strong.gif HL 70 100 40 sp/su 7 4 14 -4 -1
Far Fierce.gif HL 80 200 60 sp/su 6 3 19 -4 +1 Damage at tip 100
Far Short.gif HL 30 50 20 sp/su 4 3 6 +2 +5
Far Forward.gif HL 70 100 40 - 7 2 13 -1 +2
Far Roundhouse.gif HL 110 200 60 - 8 2 22 -6 -2
Crouch Jab.gif HL 20 50 20 ch/sp/su 3 2 6 +3 +6
Crouch Strong.gif HL 65 100 40 sp/su 5 4 7 +3 +6
Crouch Fierce.gif HL 90 200 60 - 6 4 12 +2 +7 Forces stand
Crouch Short.gif L 25 50 20 ch/sp/su 3 3 9 -1 +2
Crouch Forward.gif L 65 100 40 sp/su 6 4 12 -2 +1
Crouch Roundhouse.gif L 95 100 60 - 7 2 24 -8 - Hard knockdown
Jump Up Jab.gif H 50 50 20 - 4 4 - - -
Jump Up Strong.gif H 80 100 40 - 5 4 - - -
Jump Up Fierce.gif H 100 200 60 - 5 3 - - -
Jump Up Short.gif H 30 50 20 - 5 5 - - -
Jump Up Forward.gif H 70 100 40 - 5 7 - - -
Jump Up Roundhouse.gif H 100 200 60 - 5 3 - - -
Jump Forward Jab.gif H 50 50 20 - 4 5 - - -
Jump Forward Strong.gif H 80 100 40 - 5 3 - - -
Jump Forward Fierce.gif H 100 200 60 - 6 4 - - -
Jump Forward Short.gif H 30 50 20 - 4 7 - - -
Jump Forward Forward.gif H 70 100 40 - 5 4 - - -
Jump Forward Roundhouse.gif H 100 200 60 - 6 5 - - -
Focus Attack LVL 1 HL 60 100 20 - 10+11 2 35 -21 -21
Focus Attack LVL 2 HL 80 150 40 - 18+11 2 35 -15 -
Focus Attack LVL 3 - 120 200 60 - 65 2 35 - -
Forward Throw 0.79 140 130 40 - 3 2 20 - - Hard knockdown
Back Throw 0.79 135 140 40 - 3 2 20 - - Hard knockdown
Air Throw 1.00 150 150 40 - 5 2 - - - Hard knockdown
Cannon Spike Short.gif HL 100[120] 100[150] 30/40 su 5 21 20 + After landing 12 -30 - 1~4f Invincible, 5f upperbody strike and projectile invincible, 5f unthrowable, 7f~ airborne, first 2 active frames pursuit property, [] refers to active frames 3 and onwards
Cannon Spike Forward.gif HL 100[140] 100[180] 30/40 su 5 26 18 + After landing 12 -30 - 1~5f Invincible, 7f~ airborne, first 2 active frames pursuit property, [] refers to active frames 3 and onwards
Cannon Spike Roundhouse.gif HL 100[160] 100[200] 30/40 su 5 31 17 + After landing 12 -30 - 1~5f Invincible, 7f~ airborne, first 2 active frames pursuit property, [] refers to active frames 3 and onwards
Cannon Spike EX.gif HL 150[95] 200[100] -250/0 su 5 26 18 + After landing 12 -30 - 1~6f Invincible, 7f~ airborne, active frames 3 and onwards pursuit property, [] refers to active frames 3 and onwards
Spiral Arrow Short.gif L 80 150 30/30 - 7 19 4 + After landing 15 -17 - 14f~ airborne
Spiral Arrow Forward.gif L 100 150 30/30 - 7 19 4 + After landing 15 -17 - 14f~ airborne
Spiral Arrow Roundhouse.gif L 40*80 80*100 30/30*30 su*- 7 7*12 4 + After landing 15 -15 - 14f~ airborne
Spiral Arrow EX.gif L 100*60 100*100 -250/0 su*- 7 7*12 4 + After landing 15 -10 - 1~25f projectile invincible, 14f~ airborne
Spin Knuckle Jab.gif HL 80*80 100*100 30/20*20 su*- 35 3*8 9 +4 - 1f strike and projectile invincible, 2~25f strike invincible (except head and feet), 2~25f projectile invincible (except head), 6~25f airborne, armor break
Spin Knuckle Strong.gif HL 80*80 100*100 30/20*20 su*- 33 3*8 10 +3 - 1f strike and projectile invincible, 2~24f strike invincible (except head and feet), 2~24f projectile invincible (except head), 6~24f airborne, armor break
Spin Knuckle Fierce.gif HL 80*80 100*100 30/20*20 su*- 36 3*8 10 +3 - 1f strike and projectile invincible, 2~27f strike invincible (except head and feet), 2~27f projectile invincible (except head), 6~27f airborne, armor break
Spin Knuckle EX.gif HL 80*80 100*100 -250/0 su*- 33 3*8 10 +3 - 1~25f strike and projectile invincible, 6~24f airborne, armor break
Hooligan Combination - - - 30/- - - - See notes - - 7f~ airborne, 32f~ can cancel into followup, LP:53f MP:45f HP:39f cancels into Razor's Edge Slicer
Hooligan Combination EX.gif - - - -250/0 - - - See notes - - 7f~ airborne, tracks opponent, 32f~ can cancel into followup, 43f cancels into Razor's Edge Slicer
Razor's Edge Slicer L 100 150 0/30 su 10 9 13 -1 - 1~9f airborne
Razor's Edge Slicer EX.gif L 120 200 0/0 su 10 9 13 -1 - 1~9f airborne
Fatal Leg Twister 1.03 130 140 0/40 - 31+1 1 After landing 5 - - Hard knockdown
Crossed Scissors 1.03 140 150 0/40 - 31+1 1 After landing 5 - - Hard knockdown
Cannon Strike HL 60 100 10/20 - 12 11 After landing 5 - - Can be canceled from 9f of jump
Cannon Strike EX.gif HL 80 100 -250/0 - 12 11 After landing 4 +14 +18 Frame advantage based on lowest jump possible (startup 17f)
Super Combo HL 40x6*110 0 -1000/0 - 1+5 6*6*6(3)2*2(2)2(11)8 30 + After landing 21 -35 - 1~5f Invincible, 3~26f 46f~ airborne, Untechable limited juggle knockdown, pursuit property
Ultra Combo 1 HL 30x6*210[30x5*330] 0 0/0 - 0+10 6*6*6(3)2*2(2)2(11)8 30 + After landing 21 -35 - 1~10f Invincible, 7~30f 50f~ airborne, untechable limited juggle knockdown, pursuit property, 5th hit goes into animation, [] refers to animation
Ultra Combo 2 - 470 0 0/0 - 0+1 35 61 - - Counters strikes until 35f, hard knockdown
Block Super Meter Frames
Move Name HL Damage Stun Gain Cancel Ability Startup Active Recovery On Guard On Hit Notes
[/spoiler]
^^^ All that gibberish resulted in her being incredible in SSFIVAE:2012. Ultra looks to change that while keep her essence there.

TL;DR
Because some characters are too strong while others aren't. Capcom, please hand out them nerfs and buffs.
When is Marvel?

Again, if you don't play fighting games, it's just a cheap shallow cash-in with a new adjective/noun added on the name. But it's so much more than that. All these even applied to the most early of fighting games. When we had SF2: Hyper Fighting on SNES followed by Super 2:Turbo. It wasn't just 4 new characters, it was a huge update with how characters operate but obviously a lot of people don't see it that indepth. Every single fighting game follows the same rules.
SSFIVAE:2012 as we know it is about to change in a dramatic way. It's going to be huge and completely new game. Remember as well, the last Street Fighter game (Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition 2012) was 3 years ago. We need this update.

[Zaliphone]

Isn't that something that could be fixed in a free patch? Or am I just being blasphemous here? It does sound like a ton of work to rework a bunch of small things, so I guess it's kind of justified.

[BumblebeeCody*]

Isn't that something that could be fixed in a free patch? Or am I just being blasphemous here? It does sound like a ton of work to rework a bunch of small things, so I guess it's kind of justified.

Not really. It is a fair point. That's the thing, this is a patch.
In terms of games we have
Street Fighter 4(2009) and Super Street Fighter 4(2010) and that's it. The only copy of the game you need is Super Street Fighter 4. All of the expansions/update/Capcom nerf fests are add-ons for Super Street Fighter 4. However each patch overrides the previous version.

When you load Super Street Fighter 4 you can download Arcade Edition(a completely new game) which is the next update to SSFIV. That costs money. However Arcade Edition 2012 is a free patch with balance changes(because not many people liked Arcade Edition changes so they added a free update to balance the game but no new characters). With Ultra Street Fighter 4, again all you'll need is the disc for SSFIV and the update will be applied.
(You can change which version you're playing from the menu).

All of this or you could buy the retail version of Arcade Edition and Ultra SFIV and apply the updates that way. Same thing. Just everyone pretty much has SSFIV.

As for it being free, I honestly don't mind paying for the next Street Fighter 4. There's a lot of work going into the balance changes which takes months of work for the Capcom guys to do, combined with us getting 5 characters/music and stages(even though they are copy paste from SFxT(But we don't talk about that game)). Plus, when Capcom know people hate the update they do give us free patches. Arcade Edition 2012 is a free patch and has been tournament standard for the last 3 years.
It's really only justified for those who see the value in this genre.
Also worth noting that Super Street Fighter 4 was last full retail game. All patches are around £12($9.99). Ultra will cost £30/$40(retail) with the DLC version for SSFIV being $15.

[Zaliphone]

Thanks for the answer. That's some really interesting and weird stuff. I've never been big into fighting games that aren't Smash Bros, so this is all foreign to me.

[retrolinkx]

The main reason I like Soulcalibur is that it's one of those few games that are so broken in mechanics that it's fun.

Play as Nightmare, and spam Y and Right, and you're golden.

Hell, Cervantes even had a move where he slices through your body and throws you, I used to hit my opponents to the end of the ring and throw them out using that move.

[BumblebeeCody*]

Thanks for the answer. That's some really interesting and weird stuff. I've never been big into fighting games that aren't Smash Bros, so this is all foreign to me.

No problem. Smash Bros follows the same rules as Street Fighter too. Not every game uses hitboxes. Tekken and Mortal Kombat for example don't. They have their own model data but every fighting game ever(even Shaq Fu) follow the importance or frame data.
Smash Bros Melee does. For example:
There's reasons why Marth is considered quite possibly one of the best in the game(top 5)

That move is OP as hell. The speed and range of his hitbox is crazy.

The main reason I like Soulcalibur is that it's one of those few games that are so broken in mechanics that it's fun.

Play as Nightmare, and spam Y and Right, and you're golden.

Hell, Cervantes even had a move where he slices through your body and throws you, I used to hit my opponents to the end of the ring and throw them out using that move.

Just play Link. Instant win. Kinda odd how Xbox LIVE and PSN got a HD remake for their console but Wii U didn't. I know why they didn't, but if Wii U did get the HD remake the other consoles did, ah man would Link be awesome to play.
Also, Viola in SCV is cheap as hell.

[PixelXenoKing]

Injustice is the best fighting game and the one im best at. I thought i was good at marvel since i always best high ranks but i played cody and got my ass handed to me. Tekken is also awesome but i was never amazing but i have a pretty good ratio in TR. Actually i have a really good ratio on every fighting game. Injustice: W: 217, L: 49. Marvel W:43, L:19. TR (Tekken Revolution) W:17, L:7. The new characters in the new street fighter are good but im only looking forward to rolento.

[Psychospacecow]

I'm one of those people that thinks they're good at fighting games until they go online or reach the difficulty curve in campaign. Speaking of which, I really hate what they did in SCV. I want to play as Kilik dang it, not wants to be Goku, not random character wearing a mask that is Kilik but in all the wrong ways, Kilik.

[BumblebeeCody*]

I'm one of those people that thinks they're good at fighting games until they go online or reach the difficulty curve in campaign. Speaking of which, I really hate what they did in SCV. I want to play as Kilik dang it, not wants to be Goku, not random character wearing a mask that is Kilik but in all the wrong ways, Kilik.

Some are just amazing though.

[retrolinkx]

I remember I made Snake and Liquid from MGS1 and made them fight, and literally since the fist moves are from Tekken, he could do shit like turn into a flying dragon and K.O. each other, and I was just like.

"I bet Otacon told the fight in MGS to everyone just like this, that Snake "Flew into the air, sprouted wings and punched the living daylights out of Liquid"."

[Psychospacecow]

I meant how they turned Kilik into a random style character. You seriously don't need 3 of them, and the fact that they turned an established character into one, especially since I mained Kilik, doesn't help. I hate that kid that replaced him. He plays differently, more like Seong mi-na (I think that's spelled right).

[Zaliphone]

I just beat the main mission to Ground Zeroes and holy hell was it awesome. The ending actually had me wide-eyed and completely shocked. It was absolutely worth the money I spent on it. I'm definitely going to try and beat all of the Side-Ops and complete the game.

4/5, just get it already!

[BumblebeeCody*]

I meant how they turned Kilik into a random style character. You seriously don't need 3 of them, and the fact that they turned an established character into one, especially since I mained Kilik, doesn't help. I hate that kid that replaced him. He plays differently, more like Seong mi-na (I think that's spelled right).

Ah OK. That's pretty understandable. A few characters had their son/daughter replace them.

I just beat the main mission to Ground Zeroes and holy hell was it awesome. The ending actually had me wide-eyed and completely shocked. It was absolutely worth the money I spent on it. I'm definitely going to try and beat all of the Side-Ops and complete the game.

4/5, just get it already!

Sounds promising. :B