The Super Smash Bros. 4 Discussion Thread

[RepentantSky]

Just a thought but I do wish people could have a conversation about Smash without instantly taking it Melee. Yes, it was fun, but there isn't going to be another Melee. It's not nerfing if most of the other characters match. There will be bad match up but that goes for anyone. Melee happened, but it's time to move on already.

[Psychospacecow]

Its just a baseline that's commonly accepted for the sake of comparison. The game is still played in tourneys so its still fairly popular and acts as a means to compare that most following said comparisons will understand.

[RepentantSky]

Its just a baseline that's commonly accepted for the sake of comparison. The game is still played in tourneys so its still fairly popular and acts as a means to compare that most following said comparisons will understand.

That would be fine if people didn't always start with "I wish this game was like Melee" or "I want my L-cancel"

I understand the game is popular and all and I can even see why, but really the fact of the matter is when people get exactly the same thing, they complain, just as much as if they don't. It's hard to decide which side of the fanbase, the ones who want the same thing, and the ones who don't, is larger portion of the fanbase but these games do well enough with their changes that of course it's expected there will be some. Gamers I think are very confused people, not really sure what they want, but complaining no matter you get, is just being foolish and while it doesn't happen so much here, the overall fanbase for these games is in my opinion, the worst of those that don't know what they want.

If people were simply making comparisons to the game, that would be fine, but it isn't like that. It's mostly "Oh this is different than Melee, hate it, do it now!" and I can't stand that kind of thing.

[gamemaster1991]

Its just a baseline that's commonly accepted for the sake of comparison. The game is still played in tourneys so its still fairly popular and acts as a means to compare that most following said comparisons will understand.

That would be fine if people didn't always start with "I wish this game was like Melee" or "I want my L-cancel"

I understand the game is popular and all and I can even see why, but really the fact of the matter is when people get exactly the same thing, they complain, just as much as if they don't. It's hard to decide which side of the fanbase, the ones who want the same thing, and the ones who don't, is larger portion of the fanbase but these games do well enough with their changes that of course it's expected there will be some. Gamers I think are very confused people, not really sure what they want, but complaining no matter you get, is just being foolish and while it doesn't happen so much here, the overall fanbase for these games is in my opinion, the worst of those that don't know what they want.

If people were simply making comparisons to the game, that would be fine, but it isn't like that. It's mostly "Oh this is different than Melee, hate it, do it now!" and I can't stand that kind of thing.

In the immortal words of TV tropes, It's either They Changed It, Now It Sucks or It's the Same, Now It Sucks. I really don't get fans. They complan over the smallest thing or if anything is changed/left alone.

[BumblebeeCody*]

Just a thought but I do wish people could have a conversation about Smash without instantly taking it Melee. Yes, it was fun, but there isn't going to be another Melee. It's not nerfing if most of the other characters match. There will be bad match up but that goes for anyone. Melee happened, but it's time to move on already.

Yeah but:

That would be fine if people didn't always start with "I wish this game was like Melee" or "I want my L-cancel"

The thing is, a lot of people who play Smash have no idea what L-cancels or Wavedashing even is. To them, they just play Smash for fun, which is perfectly fine. But for those who a looking to take the game indepth and learn all these tactics, they should also be catered for as like it or not, they are a considerable amount of the player base. So much so that they're the one who are keeping the game a live an incredible 12 years on while all the casuals left many years ago.

Surprisingly the reception for the new Smash has been pretty positive. I'm personally not liking the new changes but again, that's from a competitive stand point. That doesn't at all mean the game is bad but I do feel the game is half-arsed. Re-using models, basically up scaling characters and hardly any additions over the previous game.

Lastly you have to understand too, Melee really was a frikkin' damn good. Nintendo and Hal Labs really outdid themselves on that. I'd liken it to how people still have a little masturbation session over how good Final Fantasy VII is or how Sonic 2 is god like and everything after them sucked. It's nothing to really get worked up about. It shouldn't hinder your own enjoyment of a game.

Also, I hated tripping.
Edit: The term "gamers" is a huge generalisation and can't really be used when making a point.

[RepentantSky]

That's called a combo, and it's not going to be one everyone is pulling off all the time so it's not a good argument.

The term gamers is another word for saying people who play games, it's perfectly valid.

I would also call Melee overrated. It's like with RE: 4 people overrate the hell out of that game. Also the Sonic 2 and FF 7 fanbase border on retarded when talking about those games so it really isn't valid to use them. I had a guy once back when myspace was a thing force me to create three different accounts because he kept hacking my accounts because I said FF7 was decent and he was mad. You cannot count that fanbase as anything valid.

[Psychospacecow]

I don't know about that man. Cody is referring to the different demographics within a game's players while you have a broader view of things and both are valid in their own right, but by its nature there is going to be some conflict, and that isn't bad. Also, to discount any one game or series based around what you have personally observed from individuals within a fanbase only really illustrates your perspective of a fanbase, a bias, over a few individuals that personally interacted with you. I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, but it isn't fair to say that any one game shouldn't be considered a baseline if the community sees it as such. That's like saying the one guy in a desert war who wants khaki ww2 uniforms should dictate who gets what even if everyone else in the field says multicam is better suited for the area.

[RepentantSky]

FF7 has a fanbase that is such that you can't review the game without getting hate. Like I said, I think it's decent but that puts me in the middle of the flames for not completely loving it or not completely hating it. You can put any merit on a fanbase like that. That's not one or two experiences with a few people either, that's how that group of gamers works.

[Arjahn]

Guys just chill out and enjoy the Pac Man.

[gamemaster1991]

FF7 has a fanbase that is such that you can't review the game without getting hate. Like I said, I think it's decent but that puts me in the middle of the flames for not completely loving it or not completely hating it. You can put any merit on a fanbase like that. That's not one or two experiences with a few people either, that's how that group of gamers works.

I'm in the camp that has never played FF7, but I don't want to play it do to how the fans are. I feel that Melee is the same way for a bunch of people.

---

Guys just chill out and enjoy the Pac Man.

MMMMMM. that's some good Pac-Man.

[BumblebeeCody*]

FF7 has a fanbase that is such that you can't review the game without getting hate. Like I said, I think it's decent but that puts me in the middle of the flames for not completely loving it or not completely hating it. You can put any merit on a fanbase like that. That's not one or two experiences with a few people either, that's how that group of gamers works.

That's kinda my overall point. Whether you have those rabid fans who just wank over FF7 or Melee all over or those that just wanna keep seeing the series bring out something else, shouldn't really be something that gets to you.

There's so many factors to consider which is why I said you can't use the term gamer. I'm someone who loves RE4 and consider it to be one the best game ever made. I still play it to this day on my Xbox 360 yet I still enjoy RE5 and 6 and those game get shat on by so many close minded people. At the end of the day it doesn't bother me because I can personally enjoy it without having to worry about other peoples opinion. If they want to be close minded and want Melee everyday then fine, but as much as I prefer Melee I still want to play the new one. My reason for not liking the new Smash goes beyond it not being Melee. Those types of points are just silly.

Even Nintendo, Hal Labs and Sakurai acknowledge what the player base is like. They finally got their act together and let Melee be in the EVO 2013 lineup, held their own tournament with Smash pros and added competitive stages(optional). Not only that but with the new modes added, you can finally separate those who want to play competitive (FOR GLORY!) or Casual (For Fun). It gives everyone what they want without making either party annoyed.

When you make a fighting game, you kinda have to owe that playerbase something because as I stated earlier, they'll be the ones supporting your game nearly 12/13 years on.

Melee it on Me has a good write up for the new Smash. I highly recommend it as it even covers what were just talking about
Excerpt:

5. Accuse Melee players of pessimism.

Smash 4 players need to understand that someone being disappointed for legitimate reasons does not have to take away from your enjoyment, and not attack players who express disappointment. There are already threads on Smashboards claiming that Smash 4 pessimists are “ruining it” for everyone else.

On the other hand, Melee players do not need to try to make Smash 4 players feel bad about the game. This is merely going to result in encouraging Smash 4 players to be defensive and band together in the thread.

Salt:

Spoiler

[Psychospacecow]

Man, nsfw that spoiler. Its gruesome.

[TheTrueBoss997]

Man, nsfw that spoiler. Its gruesome.

I agree, that spoiler is very scary and horrifying. I think I should report it.

[BumblebeeCody*]

Leaked footage of Wii U version

That channel as so much more.

[Takahashi2212]

If enough people have the game at launch, maybe we could do some sort of site tournament.

Just a thought.