EVO 2015

[BumblebeeCody*]

For most people, it really isn't. Smash has no groundings in the mario story or timeline. It has as little meaning as the sports games.

I think he's referring competitive wise.

Yeah, I know. As I said, for most people, it really isn't. That was something put together by fans, not Nintendo.

Not necessarily, Sakurai used to be a competitive Street Fighter player and did want Smash to have the level of competition that other fighting game shave, but also make it easy for anyone to play if they want to. That was what Smashs initial design was(Dragon Fighter). But Smash 4 was clearly designed to be competitive, especially now that Nintendo have sponsored all major Smash tournaments, even holding their own. 
Smash 4 has had updates already that the casuals may not notice but the characters have changed in an update and I suspect more nerf/buff updates will come. Which will be good because screw that Diddy Kong.

[RepentantSky]

As long as were talking about Smash, I'm getting really tired of two Smash games showing up at Evo. This I understand a bit more because Smash Wii U is out now, but having Melee and project M to me was always stupid and at some point people have got to stop telling themselves that Smash Bros. Melee is good. I personally find it far more boring than all the other Smash games to date unless you are competing against someone. I'm sure that'll fall under unpopular game opinions, but it's mine and I'm sticking to it. That games needs to stop showing up at Evo.

[BumblebeeCody*]

As long as were talking about Smash, I'm getting really tired of two Smash games showing up at Evo. This I understand a bit more because Smash Wii U is out now, but having Melee and project M to me was always stupid and at some point people have got to stop telling themselves that Smash Bros. Melee is good. I personally find it far more boring than all the other Smash games to date unless you are competing against someone. I'm sure that'll fall under unpopular game opinions, but it's mine and I'm sticking to it. That games needs to stop showing up at Evo.

Hey fair enough. If you find Melee boring, cool cool. But the story of Melee being at EVO goes far beyond being clinging onto an 12 year old games. The community was owed a place at EVO. 2013 was the year that the self-sustaining Smash community managed to break through and gain a place at EVO 2013. Raising the most donations for breast cancer while showing how big the community is. 

Melee being able to make it to EVO as a main stage game basically meant that the community now had a place. A place to be taken seriously. A place that people will take the game to a much higher level. After being neglected since the beginning of EVO, the Smash community we now known. It's why we still see Melee at EVO. It goes right down the community's roots and support of a game. You can go on YouTube and find reactions all over the world from different communities regarding Smash being officially the 8th title at EVO 2013. It's a seriously big deal; a big deal that Nintendo almost fucked up by nearly banning it. If you don't follow fighting games much then it may seem like a pointless game to have at EVO, but the years these guys have been keeping the community alive and pushing for it to be at EVO has been far too long. Everyone (within the FGC) has seen it but Melee just needed it's chance.

(There's a really good video summarising it but I can't find it)
(Also for me personally, Smash Melee is the hypest game. Smash 4....eh).
Edit(Also, if it wasn't for Melee, then Smash 4 wouldn't have been at EVO this year)

Edit edit:
That video:
Well worth watching. Greatly explains Melees presence. 

[RepentantSky]

All that is good but they are there now. Moving on a bit wouldn't hurt anything, In fact, if they really insist on having two smash games there, Project M is better than Melee is, because it was supposed to be and it did it's job. Perhaps moving Melee out for it wouldn't be that big a deal.

[Psychospacecow]

Consistency is good. You know know long Marvel vs Capcom 2 has seen play in tourneys?

[BumblebeeCody*]

All that is good but they are there now. Moving on a bit wouldn't hurt anything, In fact, if they really insist on having two smash games there, Project M is better than Melee is, because it was supposed to be and it did it's job. Perhaps moving Melee out for it wouldn't be that big a deal.

Project M was really more about fixing Brawls problems. And Brawl has some incredibly huge problems with mechanics(tripping) and balancing(MetaKnight). They're still very different games. While Project M has been at a lot of majors, including EVO 2014, the game is stuck in a limbo of sorts.

Project M finally made Brawl competitive with fix and new additions, but the game is based on using modified hardware and software. Since Nintendo are now joining on the competitive fighting game scene, sponsoring tournaments with Project M makes Nintendo look bad. In a nutshell, Nintendo can't sponsor a fan made project that was created by exploiting vulnerabilities within the Wii/Wii U hardware and software. There'd be articles mocking Nintendo for years. As much as I love Project M and would like to see more of it, it's understandable that it doesn't show at tournaments if Nintendo are sponsoring it.

[RepentantSky]

I don't see why they couldn't if they'd just get their asses out of the 80's and 90's. Showing support for your fanbase instead of throwing them copyright claims and not letting them mod would do wonders for Nintendo's image, which as much as we like their games, we hate their practices so why not start with Evo?

[Psychospacecow]

Nintendo heavily relies on recurring titles. It is a risk for Nintendo if the fanbase can tweak a game to its liking, as opposed to buying the new title.

[RepentantSky]

With a game like Smash though, people are going to buy the newest version regardless.

[Psychospacecow]

When you're dealing with one of your bread winners, that gets people on your new consoles, are you willing to take that risk?

[Takahashi2212]

In a nutshell, Nintendo can't sponsor a fan made project that was created by exploiting vulnerabilities within the Wii/Wii U hardware and software.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the legal gray area Project M exists under. They are redistributing character files, textures, art assets, and music that is Nintendo's, without their permission. The addition of Roy and Mewtwo just make it even worse for them. Also, there is the fact that Nintendo doesn't even own everything in Brawl (Sonic, Snake, Ness, the Pokemon, and any stages and music from said properties). So not only would Nintendo have to okay the use of all their characters, but they would have to re-gain the rights to all of the stuff in Brawl they don't own to be used in Project M. On top of that, if they chose to just let it exist, this poses another problem. If someone else wanted to freely had out any of Nintendo files, and use them in any derivative work, they could, and say that by Nintendo not doing anything to the PMDT, Nintendo has now set a legal precedent that it is okay. On top of that, one of the trademark laws states that failure to police a trademark can result in loss of the trademark. So if they don't do anything, they run the risk of losing the trademarks to the characters and other things featured in Brawl.

[BumblebeeCody*]

With a game like Smash though, people are going to buy the newest version regardless.

The thing about fighting games though is that the latest game out doesn't necessarily mean it's better. In fact, a fighting game can be that mechanically bad it can die within the first month(See Street Fighter x Tekken). In the case of Smash 5...not many people are warming up to it. Melee is just the pinnacle of the series. In the same way you'll still find Street Fighter 2 Turbo being played 25 years on. People will buy the latest version yes, myself included. But that's because it's something to go back. Not because it's a game worth taking seriously(at least to me). Not to mention, those who play competitively are the more valuable audience that companies like Nintendo, Capcom, Namco, Tecmo Koei, Iron Galaxy, SNK etc have. These are the people who are still going to be playing your game in 5,10,12 25 years time.
Let's be honest, other than what Project M is, does anyone really care about Brawl?

In a nutshell, Nintendo can't sponsor a fan made project that was created by exploiting vulnerabilities within the Wii/Wii U hardware and software.

I'm pretty sure it's actually the legal gray area Project M exists under. They are redistributing character files, textures, art assets, and music that is Nintendo's, without their permission. The addition of Roy and Mewtwo just make it even worse for them. Also, there is the fact that Nintendo doesn't even own everything in Brawl (Sonic, Snake, Ness, the Pokemon, and any stages and music from said properties). So not only would Nintendo have to okay the use of all their characters, but they would have to re-gain the rights to all of the stuff in Brawl they don't own to be used in Project M. On top of that, if they chose to just let it exist, this poses another problem. If someone else wanted to freely had out any of Nintendo files, and use them in any derivative work, they could, and say that by Nintendo not doing anything to the PMDT, Nintendo has now set a legal precedent that it is okay. On top of that, one of the trademark laws states that failure to police a trademark can result in loss of the trademark. So if they don't do anything, they run the risk of losing the trademarks to the characters and other things featured in Brawl.

Yeah I think that does add it. But I don't necessarily think that it's the main point. I guarantee Nintendo know very well about Project M. But like I said, Project M is based on modifying the Wii hardware and software to do things it wasn't supposed to. The get Project M running on a Wii/Wii U, you have to slightly modify the operating system, install the homebrew channel(unsigned code to an unapproved channel), then run the game via a disc with cheats or as a backup on a USB stick. 
Nintendo would look like fools for sponsoring an event that had a game based on Nintendo not being able to secure their own console. 


I think Nintendo are just turning a blind eye to the whole Project M thing. The PMDT are on a very fine line(I think). Nintendo will easily shut fan mods down and with how big Project M is(being at EVO), I'm surprised they're still going. Combined with your points on using characters like Roy and Mewtwo as well as copyright, it's a very very tight line. 

Not only that...but I vastly, prefer Project M over Smash 4. Project M has Turbo:


Once you go black...